From Central Academy of Fine Arts to Tai Kwun
By Nadya Wang

Pi Li has donned several hats in the art industry. He served as Deputy Executive Director at the Art Administration Department at Central Academy of Fine Arts in Beijing, where he had earned his PhD in Art History and Criticism. He then left to co-found and run Boers-Li Gallery (now Spurs Gallery) during the rapid expansion of the local contemporary art scene. He then moved to Hong Kong, where he was the Sigg Senior Curator and Head of Curatorial Affairs at M+. And how he is Head of Art at Tai Kwun – Centre for Heritage and Arts.

In this conversation, Pi talks about his career so far, what to expect from Tai Kwun, and how “contemporary art is history for tomorrow”.

We would like to begin the interview with some formative experiences you had prior to moving to Hong Kong. One of the important legacies you left is the establishment of the Arts Management programme at Central Academy of Fine Arts (CAFA) in Beijing. Could you give us some context about the art education system at that time and what motivated you to pioneer this programme?

I moved to Beijing in the 1990s, when contemporary art was still underground and considered taboo. Later on, in the 2000s, when Beijing hosted the Olympics in 2008, the environment changed a lot, and contemporary art became quite a phenomenon. There was more visibility, with more commercial galleries. And step by step later, the market for contemporary art came into being in Beijing, as well as in other places. So that really showed you this kind of new environment about how we present, and how we communicate the art to the general public, to the collectors and so on. There was a need for professionalism to train not only the creators, but also the gallerists, the people working for the auction house and so on, and so we decided to build up the first art administration department in the Central Academy of Fine Arts in Beijing in the early 2000s.

To give you a little bit of background, around 2005 and 2006, it was also a critical moment for the transformation of the Chinese universities system. Before that, universities were very selective with admissions. For example, the Central Academy of Fine Art would admit less than 100 students each academic year. But after 2005, the university system in China expanded significantly, and there were more specific tracks available for the students. In this environment, we built up the first art administration department and the School of the Humanities at the Central Academy of Fine Arts. By the time I left, our graduates were working in major galleries, auction houses and publishing houses.

You have worn many hats in the arts ecosystem, being an art critic, curator, educator, and even a gallerist with Boers-Li Gallery (now Spurs Gallery). What were a few key lessons you learnt as a gallerist?

I think, well, our idea at the beginning was to build up a not-for-profit space in Beijing. The market was very hot, but it was at the same time challenging for a non-for-profit institution to survive in China, without a charity infrastructure in place. We had to become a commercial gallery to help determine its sustainability. I worked for six years as a gallerist.

The first step to running a gallery is to run a programme. So basically, it's not making one exhibition, but several exhibitions, for a duration of time in the different spaces that in turn help you to understand the rationale of the programme. That's one thing I learned.

Another thing I learned is that you have to think about your programme, your visitor’s experience, your communication, your marketing, not only from an artistic angle, but also from an entrepreneurial perspective.

In 2012, you joined M+ and oversaw its planning and opening. Could you talk about this transition period and your connection with Dr Uli Sigg?

We have known each other since the late 1990s, when he was the ambassador in Beijing. And over the years, we built a very good understanding, and a friendship. He told me that he had donated his collection to M+ in Hong Kong, and that they were looking for someone with a Chinese background to look after and lead the research for the collection. This motivated me to change my professional life from being a gallerist to becoming a curator.

I had experienced the development of contemporary art in China from being a social taboo to having a booming market. I felt that it was important for such a comprehensive collection of Chinese art to have a final home in Hong Kong. And if I wanted to commit to studying Chinese art further, this was a great collection to do so. So that's the reason I decided to stop my role of the gallerist, and moved to Hong Kong to become a museum curator.

“I had experienced the development of contemporary art in China from being a social taboo to having a booming market. I felt that it was important for such a comprehensive collection of Chinese art to have a final home in Hong Kong.”

In our prior conversation, you described M+ as one of the most ambitious museum projects in this decade, comparing it to the importance of the Museum of Modern Art (MOMA) in New York in the 1950s, the Centre Pompidou in Paris in the 1970s, and the Tate Modern in London in the 1980s-1990s. What are the factors that produce institutions of global significance? And do you think these variables have changed in the 21st century?

These examples were from America and Europe. Later, there was an expansion of other art markets, and at the same time biennales happening outside of these places, from Shanghai to Guangzhou to Singapore and so on. New national museums were built, such as the National Gallery Singapore, Louvre Abu Dhabi, and M+ in Hong Kong.

There was the force of the question mark of globalisation, and contemporary art is a consequence of globalisation. What does it mean to make contemporary art? In the 21st century, the different regions and cultures have developed their own way to make art museums in Abu Dhabi, Singapore and Hong Kong. These countries have all had different ways of initiating big art museums in our day.

Installation view of ‘Madame Song: Pioneering Art and Fashion in China’, 2023. Photo by Dan Leung. Image courtesy of M+, Hong Kong.

Could you speak about the Madame Song: Pioneering Art and Fashion exhibition? How did it come to be, and what are you most happy/proud of with the exhibition, which is still on show till 14 April 2024?

I was a witness of elite culture and popular culture in Beijing in the 1990s. It was a fascinating time for all kinds of experiments, where underground activities became mainstream. China was quite open-minded at the time, and was looking outside of China.

By chance, the Madame Song donation was one of my first acquisitions when I came to M+. The family had committed to donate all her archives and garments to us. M+ is committed to be a visual culture, and is not only an art museum. It was an opportunity to show how fashion played a role in avant-garde culture, and how avant-garde art and contemporary art had their impact in a compressed time.

What prompted you to leave M+ after a decade and start afresh at Tai Kwun in 2023? What is Tai Kwun Contemporary’s unique proposition as a non-collecting institution in Hong Kong and beyond?

I think people have a need for change. After 10 years at M+, we achieved a lot. It was time to explore a new chapter of life.

Hong Kong has 7 million people. And they definitely are now in a new chapter with new institutions in place. We should have a diversity of institutions and other programmes in Hong Kong. There should be a big collection institution, like M+. However, you also need some institutions which have more flexibility to show the current art scene. So that's the major motive, initially, for me to want to move to Tai Kwun. Compared to M+, Tai Kwun is a small but beautiful institution. It’s more like an art centre than an institution. It has no collection, and so to make a show, we need to loan or commission works. And with new commissions, we have to work together with artists even before the work is produced. That's a very different way of working from a collection-based institution, and can be more exciting.

“We should have a diversity of institutions and other programmes in Hong Kong. There should be a big collection institution, like M+. However, you also need some institutions which have more flexibility to show the current art scene.”

Tai Kwun Contemporary’s exhibition schedule is broken up into seasons. The winter show is a large group exhibition that presents a new narrative. Moving into summer, Tai Kwun Contemporary usually holds a survey exhibition of a pioneering artist in a particular field. In the third quarter of the year, the spotlight is focused on breakthrough emerging and mid-career artists with new commissions. Can you elaborate on the annual programme structure and how it connects with the vision for Tai Kwun Contemporary?

First of all, we want to be the institution which can present the current art scene. Through an impactful programme, we want to create experiences of contemporary art and engender a deeper understanding of the world that we are living in.

I want to show the current contemporary art scene and compare that with the recent past. We want to establish the historical framework for helping us to understand the art and the world and the society in our day.

We have three types of the show. One is a big group show called “New Narratives”, which presents the current art scene, and how art in our region reacts to issues of our time. Every year, we either want to present a big group show or several solo shows contextualised as a group show.

Another type of show is a historical one called “Pioneering”. For example, for the Bruce Nauman show, we have major works loaned from major institutions. It’s the first time a show of the artist of this scale is taking place in Asia, and demonstrates our ambition and ability to put together a museum-level retrospective.

For the third, we use each gallery as one unit. We commission younger artists or emerging or mid-career artists to produce commissions. We introduce these artists to the general public to build up the communication, which has the potential to lead them to the next chapter of their career.

So there are three types of show: the group show, another one focused on an art historical figure, and then commissions for the current or younger generation of artists in our region.

Could you summarise the challenges and benefits of running Tai Kwun Contemporary which does not have its own collection of artworks?

A major challenge is that an institution with no collection requires a lot of resources to make a show. When you have a collection, you maintain the works, curate them, package them and make a show. But usually for a show in Tai Kwun, at least 50% of the show is new commissions, and there’s a longer time for the idea, logistics and production, and sometimes there is no 100% guarantee that it will be successful. There is a risk that has to be managed, and it requires a lot of experience, and you know what can work out and what may not work out. There’s this uncertainty because of the lack of resources. We do have the backing of the Hong Kong Jockey Club, and are in a relatively good position, and have many resources to run the institution with no collection.

When you talk about the benefits, we have the luxury of showing new experiences to the audience. We can ask the artists to do something new and immersive in reaction to the society at the time, and present something people have not experienced before. In this way, we are in the role of creating the history of the art. Art of today is the history of tomorrow.

What happens to the commissions? Do you keep it, or do the works belong to the artists?

It belongs to the artist and is returned to the artist.

Why does it not go towards building a collection? Why is there the rejection of the idea of a collection?

Tai Kwun was initiated by the Hong Kong Jockey Club. It requires a lot of expertise with an acquisition committee, and the maintenance, storage, conservation, with double or triple the work. Also you already have a mega collection institution like M+. I’m not saying that Tai Kwun would never have a collection, but for now, it is not the priority. So maybe in the future, there may be a collection, but for now, we are focused on creating good programmes for the audience.

Exhibition view of ‘Green Snake: women-centred ecologies’, 20 December 2023 - 1 April 2024 at Tai Kwun Contemporary. Photo by Kwan Sheung Chi. Image courtesy of Tai Kwun.

The current exhibition ‘Green Snake: women-centred ecologies’ (2023-24), curated by Kathryn Weir and Xue Tan, with assistant curators Tiffany Leung and Pietro Scammacca. The exhibition focuses on larger themes of ecology and draws on mythologies and worldviews with women at its core. Are there any memorable anecdotes or responses to the show?

It was pretty good. I think for Chinese New Year, we received 8,000 to 9,000 visitors per week, so that’s a great number. For me, it’s showing how people are dealing with the subject of ecology in marginal cultures. As we are approaching Hong Kong Art Week with Art Basel Hong Kong, where there will be lots of solo exhibitions, and works of heroes of contemporary art on show, Tai Kwun can show another aspect of contemporary art, other thoughts, other approaches to contemporary art. I find that interesting.

Another aspect that you are involved in as Head of Art in Tai Kwun is public art within the compound. Are there any plans or projects in the works which you can talk more about?

Yeah, I think in the last years, we have had many important commissions happen in the prison yard, including Nadim Abbas, Gaylord Chan, Ceal Floyer and Lawrence Weiner. From this year, we want to have a longer period for the public art, like one or two years. There was a little bit of a delay during the pandemic. By October this year, we will re-launch our public art commissions.

To end this interview, we would like to mention a quote you said which resonated strongly with us: “Contemporary art is history for tomorrow.” How has/does this inform the choices that you make in your career?

I think this kind of awareness is important. What we are doing now is contributing to history. The subjectivity of doing this gives us confidence and fuels our ambitions. It also keeps us humble to think about the audience in 20, 30 years, considering what we are making today. So we have to be very careful, selective and thoughtful. The reason I like my job so much is that we are not following, but creating something, and we are not creating something from the black, but creating something in the contextualisation of history.

Thank you, Pi Li!

The interview has been edited.

Green Snake: Women-Centred Ecologies opened at Tai Kwun on 20 December 2023, and runs till 1 April 2024. More information about Tai Kwun Contemporary here.